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NK Policy Regarding Leaks & Copyrighted Materials

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  1. Galaxy Girl
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    Golachab
    VI° - Burning Bodies
    Thursday, October 1st, 2009 - 02:29:49
    Originally posted by Tigger
    Originally posted by Galaxy Girl
    Originally posted by William Shatner

    What about other bands?

     I’m going to actually have to speak on behalf of bands that wouldn’t approve and say please don’t. I’ve been in the position before of having to rat out a forum for allowing the leak of material of a good friend that was unable to pay hospital bills for his sick wife among other things, because although he is a fairly well known and respected artist among Manson fans, aside from soundtracks, no one was buying his albums, yet there were several available and being downloaded illegally on the forum. That’s just not fair to be put in that kind of position. Fans are often really surprised to find out how little the really talented artist make. You generally have to be willing to sell your creative freedom (sign to a major label) to make any money in the music industry. If you want to support an artist, make a thread about them, post a link to their myspace or even a youtube video, but please don’t upload an album without the artists consent. 

    It's ultimately up to the forum administrators to allow this kind of stuff, but I just want to say that I can't guarentee I'm not going to report it if it does happen to be someone I care a great deal about, who I'm certain would not approve. 

     See, the thing is its old hat to think "if we stop this person from downloading this song, they will go out and buy it and we will make money." If there is any album or song I download its because I have no intention of buying it.  However, if I download an album and like it - I will go out and buy it. 

     

     

    However hard that is to believe, good for you! Although had the artist shared the same logic, they’d give away all their albums, and then try to sell the same albums to the people that already downloaded them.O_o

    I’m pretty sure there’s already a debate in regards to piracy on here, and your opinion is by all means far from unique, though I don’t believe it’s enough to sway the opinion of many independent artists, and/or legalize piracy. I'm quite certain there are far more people that have no inclination to buy an album they've already downloaded for free, than actually buy an album they've sampled, liked, and would like to hear more of. If what you're saying is true, you might be a diamond in the rough, but you have to admit alot of people will lie about doing such a thing in an attempt to justify illegally downloading, which in essence is the same as stealing a CD minus the cost of the artwork and packaging which is a very small percentage of the ultimate cost. 

     

     

     

  2. Tigger
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    Harab Serapel
    IV° - Ravens of the Burning of God
    Thursday, October 1st, 2009 - 03:08:25

    Yes, but if they are going to steal the music anyway...

     

    There is also the fact that artists don't make a majority of their money off album sales.  I'm not saying people should never buy albums because as I said I still do and am more than willing to buy every album by bands and artists I like. However, if someone downloads an album, goes to see a show by that artist, buys merchandise....isn't the artist making money still? Again, I'm saying if the alternative is that the person downloading would never go to the show and never buy merchandise because they would have never heard the album because they had no intention of buying it.

     

    Really, it boils down to the fact its not a white and black issue.  Sure, there is idiots on both sides of the argument but at the very core it's not 100% right either way. I have found TONS of music that I now own dvd's, cd's, shirts, etc of after downloading a couple songs by said artist. I should have made it clear before that I very rarely download an entire album unless it's something I really figured I would not ever expect to spend money on. Mostly, I download a few songs and if I dig them...I buy the album for the rest of the songs, better quality, art work, etc.

     

    =)

     

    Back to you saying ":( I will tell on you if you post my friend's music on here because no one buys his music" ...if people download his stuff and like it, tell him to make some kickass merchandise and play some shows if he can. Those people will go!

     

    Remember when Saul Williams gave away his cd for free with just the choice of payment and of course most people chose not to pay? Trent Reznor was upset and pissed off about it. Saul was extremely happy though as more people were listening to his album than ever before and it resulted in him selling loads of merch and having a really successful tour.

     

    "You can't change the world, you can only change yourself." - MM

  3. Galaxy Girl
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    Golachab
    VI° - Burning Bodies
    Friday, October 2nd, 2009 - 17:25:34
    Originally posted by Tigger

    Back to you saying ":( I will tell on you if you post my friend's music on here because no one buys his music" ...if people download his stuff and like it, tell him to make some kickass merchandise and play some shows if he can. Those people will go!

     

    What I was saying more or less is "on the behalf of independant artists, friends, family, and fans that don't agree with it, please don't upload an album illegally."

    And I need not "tell" my friend anything. He's been in the business for over 30 years, owned his own record label and still works very closely with a lot of independent and major label bands and artists. I'm pretty confident he doesn't need to be told to "play some shows and sell some merch". He knows how this stuff works, as do I to certain degree. 

  4. Alison
    Sight & Shining Light
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    Thamiel
    X° - Duality in God
    Friday, October 2nd, 2009 - 17:51:50

    ^ I'm with you, GG. My personal opinion regarding piracy is this: would I like it if I put in a full day of work which benefits my boss, coworkers & clients to then have them decide that they just would rather not pay me for said day?

  5. tuckerx
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    Da'ath - Babe of the Abyss
    Friday, October 2nd, 2009 - 18:37:02
    Originally posted by Alison

    ^ I'm with you, GG. My personal opinion regarding piracy is this: would I like it if I put in a full day of work which benefits my boss, coworkers & clients to then have them decide that they just would rather not pay me for said day?

    Alison alison alison..... at the end of the day people can say all these things, but in reality downloading music is alot different to that. To start with, manson is fucking rich. He says in interview that he only wants absinthe and food for his cats. 
     

    He earns the most of his income from TOURS.

     

    if you buy a CD you know shit all of that money actually goes to manson in the first place right?

     

    And the reason I'm a fan like i am now all started with a burnt ACS CD. i wouldn't of payed for it, but since i got it for free i gave it a listen and now i've brought all his CDs. So in some ways downloading helps. 

     

    I don't speak for everyone (and i hope you guys don't take this wrongly), but i openly share all my manson material with friends. I have a 6gb USB full of vids and all his CDs etc that i pass around the group and they take it. As a result one of my friends has now brought most of mansons CD's aswell.

     

    So me doing this is like robbing you of your day job? oh please. It's like not giving you a tip today, but giving you 3x that tip tommorow.

     

     

  6. Alison
    Sight & Shining Light
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    Thamiel
    X° - Duality in God
    Friday, October 2nd, 2009 - 19:14:55

    To use your example, not a lot of people are willing to overtip on a meal to make up for one they ate last week, but if you & your friends are, then good for you. I avoid that altogether by paying up front.

     

    Any artist can offer you their work for free, when that is all there is & that's their prerogative. When the work becomes attached to other people & grows into something larger (say, a CD) there are obviously more people's efforts to respect.

  7. William Shatner
    We can fix this.
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    Thamiel
    X° - Duality in God
    Friday, October 2nd, 2009 - 21:39:44
    Originally posted by Galaxy Girl
    Originally posted by Tigger

    Back to you saying ":( I will tell on you if you post my friend's music on here because no one buys his music" ...if people download his stuff and like it, tell him to make some kickass merchandise and play some shows if he can. Those people will go!

     

    What I was saying was more or less is "on the behalf of independant artists, friends, family, and fans that don't agree with it, please don't upload an album illegally."

    And I need not "tell" my friend anything. He's been in the business for over 30 years, owned his own record label and still works very closely with a lot of independent and major label bands and artists. I'm pretty confident he doesn't need to be told to "play some shows and sell some merch". He knows how this stuff works, as do I to certain degree. 

     Ministry?

     

     From the way you described it it sounds as though your friend doesnt enjoy making music, he just enjoys the paycheck. Then he's the exact reason WHY I share music. Or maybe you meant something else.

     

    File sharing opens up these things to a whole new audience. Maybe this person cant affor $17.99 for fifty minutes of music. I don't buy music that doesnt have the words "Marilyn Manson" on it. Period. But my Four DevilDriver shirts and my willingness to go see them live has thrown more than enough money their way. If they, or your friend, are so greedy they absolutely have to have that 17.99, well they arent much of an artist and don't deserve my, or anyone else's admiration.

     

    They arent artists, they're a product?


    I pilfer podiums. In other words I take a stand.
  8. Galaxy Girl
    Prophette
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    Golachab
    VI° - Burning Bodies
    Saturday, October 10th, 2009 - 20:22:54

     You have really got things backwards here William Shatner. I can tell you know very little about the music industry. 

    Independent Music (Please Read) 

    Obviously my friend cares far more about making music than he does about making money. There’s no question. I really have no clue why you would think otherwise, when I clearly stated he makes very little money, yet has spent most of his life making music. He’s retaining creative control. That is one reason why he does have little money and as far as I’m concerned, that is what being an artists is all about. The “products” you speak of, are often the only ones able to make an actual living off this kind of stuff. It’s just common sense. It’s very much like mom and pop vs. big corporation. It works very similarly. 

  9. Ostendo Keter
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    Harab Serapel
    IV° - Ravens of the Burning of God
    Monday, November 16th, 2009 - 23:01:17

    It's a shame to hear this, as I have always wanted to make music, but I doubt anyone would respect the work and thought I would end up putting into it. I've made it so that I will only download official free releases for a long time now, as I am quite sure that the amount of sheer will focus and determination it takes to get good enough to make your own music and get it out there takes a lot out of you. But from an artists standpoint, many people feel as though they have their own paths in life they must take. I will admit I can't handle how this world works and am trying a lot of things to exercise my will and get something out in the world eventually.

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  10. DopeHatter
    dope hatter up in this bitch what nigga what fuck what yo bitches what ho straight outta compton
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    Samael
    III° - The Desolation of God, The Left Hand
    Friday, December 4th, 2009 - 00:20:00

    So, only Interscope has a hold of the old music, presumably. I don't expect to see the full discography here for download, but assuming Manson no longer has any rights and wouldn't get profit from demos and other unreleased shit actually getting released, would the policy change at all?

    it's going to take a million waterfalls to wash out the sin

  11. NK
    The Sex Murderer
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    Friday, December 4th, 2009 - 02:16:33
    Originally posted by DopeHatter

    So, only Interscope has a hold of the old music, presumably. I don't expect to see the full discography here for download, but assuming Manson no longer has any rights and wouldn't get profit from demos and other unreleased shit actually getting released, would the policy change at all?

     

    nope. M still makes profit off CD sales to continue making a living and thereby give us more art so this policy is completely unaffected. MM has full rights over all his music. Interscope is merely the conduit used to release all previous albums. all this means is that no future Marilyn Manson albums will be fucked over and censored by Interscope so we get the full vision and intent in our hands now.

     

  12. BlankPolaroid
    Reefer Madness.
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    Chaigidel
    IX° - Confusion of the Power of God
    Friday, January 8th, 2010 - 22:58:06
    Originally posted by NK
    Originally posted by DopeHatter

    So, only Interscope has a hold of the old music, presumably. I don't expect to see the full discography here for download, but assuming Manson no longer has any rights and wouldn't get profit from demos and other unreleased shit actually getting released, would the policy change at all?

     

    nope. M still makes profit off CD sales to continue making a living and thereby give us more art so this policy is completely unaffected. MM has full rights over all his music. Interscope is merely the conduit used to release all previous albums. all this means is that no future Marilyn Manson albums will be fucked over and censored by Interscope so we get the full vision and intent in our hands now.

    [The quote in bold]- Is just exactly what I was thinkin' and very fucking happy about, and I for one, eagerly look forward to see what will come out next.

    We'll never be surpressed by the facism of America.
  13. Msstma
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    Da'ath - Babe of the Abyss
    Monday, February 15th, 2010 - 19:20:05

    There is a quote on the Tryptich article i want to use. It's from that interview he gave in Revolver about what the Tryptich was. Can I quote it elsewhere? like not on the boards, especially if I say where I saw it?

     

    thanks

  14. Favenris
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    Thamiel
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    Monday, February 15th, 2010 - 21:11:52
    Originally posted by Msstma
    There is a quote on the Tryptich article i want to use. It's from that interview he gave in Revolver about what the Tryptich was. Can I quote it elsewhere? like not on the boards, especially if I say where I saw it?


    thanks


    Are you serious? Why would that be a problem at all?

  15. Msstma
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    Da'ath - Babe of the Abyss
    Monday, February 15th, 2010 - 22:38:50

    .

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