Babalon

  1. Babalon »
  2. Marilyn Manson »
  3. Marilyn Manson Analysis »

See No Truth, Hear No Truth, Speak No Truth ; 3 Wise Monkeys

page 2 of 2 | 1, 2

reply
  1. S.D.
    Occipital Parietal
    joined
    07/3/25
    location
    Below The Belt
    posts
    252
    Samael
    III° - The Desolation of God, The Left Hand
    Wednesday, October 14th, 2009 - 09:33:05
    Originally posted by NK

    S.D. - fantastic post. me and Gilles have been meaning to get to an exposition of Manson's perrenial simian references for a little while now and the concet of evolution (representing transformation, alchemical and otherwise). i'd say you did a great job of covering most bases of them here though.

    Thank you, if it is not already done by your hand, or should it surface in the future, feel free to use any of that material, with credit, naturally. I think that might in fact be the only extensive post I've written of late that didn't originate over at Evidence, so I guess it is for main consumption here anyway.

     

    I am glad you/anyone else enjoyed it, it was another one of those exciting sit down for a few hours with all the lyric books sessions that I love getting to grips with, compiling all the notes and then consolidating a tangent I think correlates with Manson's greater vision. A little like an evolutionary chart, if you will!

    P R O V I D E R   M O D U L E   |   F O R U M S

    Comprehensive resource and guide to the art, music, and creative history of Marilyn Manson. Featuring Marilyn Manson News, Biographies, Discographies, Discussion Boards and more.

    MySpace Facebook Twitter YouTube RSS News Feed

  2. Dorothy
    joined
    09/5/13
    posts
    179
    Gamaliel
    II° - Polluted of God
    Wednesday, October 14th, 2009 - 12:41:59

    I really missed your interpretations S.D...great work

  3. S.D.
    Occipital Parietal
    joined
    07/3/25
    location
    Below The Belt
    posts
    252
    Samael
    III° - The Desolation of God, The Left Hand
    Thursday, October 15th, 2009 - 06:26:47
    Originally posted by S.D.

    Incidentally, cover your eyes, cover your ears and cover your mouth, otherwise you might get fucked in one of them at the Baboon Rape Party.

     

    Well done to [god]speed for entirely misreading my post, you provided Epicus Hilaritus:-

     

     

    *shakes head despairingly*

    P R O V I D E R   M O D U L E   |   F O R U M S

    Comprehensive resource and guide to the art, music, and creative history of Marilyn Manson. Featuring Marilyn Manson News, Biographies, Discographies, Discussion Boards and more.

    MySpace Facebook Twitter YouTube RSS News Feed

  4. [god]speed
    [ART] is a SYMBOL Because [MAN] is a SYMBOL
    joined
    09/5/10
    location
    < [ heART ] >
    posts
    2038
    Thamiel
    X° - Duality in God
    Thursday, October 15th, 2009 - 06:45:50

     

       Lol... If I could explain.....

     

    What happened was as i was typing I was thinking of the fact that the post was on Babalon, which was exciting to see that S.D. had posted here,  so that was in the back of my mind and naturally when I  begin to type out the letters Bab  the next letters that follow are usually Babalon...  I fucked up what I wrote and I hope that NK sees it as a simple, although humorous faux pas on my part, and knows that I wasn't being a smartass or cynical, or that I truly thought S.D. said that, but simply spelled out the wrong word and can have a laugh about it. No offense intended, Not even as a joke.  Lol I blushed for a good 15 mins when I realized that i spelled out Babalon instead of Baboon and even more so when I saw that S.D. posted it. 

     

     

     

     

    Word fail results in  surprisingly funny results, S.D. brings humor into the analysis section.  

     

     

     
  5. ThreeEyedGod
    joined
    09/6/19
    posts
    34
    Nehemoth
    I° - Whisperers & Night Specters
    Friday, October 16th, 2009 - 14:16:12

    The constant references to apes and monkeys always intrigued me in Manson's work. I found it interesting that he abruptly stopped using the premise starting with Eat Me, Drink Me.

  6. NK
    The Sex Murderer
    joined
    06/9/9
    location
    Pandæmonium
    posts
    1783
    Deity
    Administrator
    Tuesday, October 20th, 2009 - 01:19:17
    Originally posted by [god]speed
     

     

    I hope that NK sees it as...

     

    *shrugs* seems little point to have even brought any negative attention to it in the first place really, via a screen cap, at least no more than any other random typo. if anything it just makes the forum sound cooler.

     

  7. S.D.
    Occipital Parietal
    joined
    07/3/25
    location
    Below The Belt
    posts
    252
    Samael
    III° - The Desolation of God, The Left Hand
    Saturday, October 24th, 2009 - 16:24:36
    Originally posted by NK

    *shrugs* seems little point to have even brought any negative attention to it in the first place really, via a screen cap, at least no more than any other random typo. if anything it just makes the forum sound cooler.

    Negative connotation wasn't part of my reasoning, I didn't even sense it could be taken that way. I just like goading [god]speed because we are friends and used to clash heads when formerly at odds.

    P R O V I D E R   M O D U L E   |   F O R U M S

    Comprehensive resource and guide to the art, music, and creative history of Marilyn Manson. Featuring Marilyn Manson News, Biographies, Discographies, Discussion Boards and more.

    MySpace Facebook Twitter YouTube RSS News Feed

  8. S.D.
    Occipital Parietal
    joined
    07/3/25
    location
    Below The Belt
    posts
    252
    Samael
    III° - The Desolation of God, The Left Hand
    Sunday, March 14th, 2010 - 19:50:10
    Originally posted by NK
    "If you live with apes, man, it's hard to be clean..."

    It would appear the domestic Ape wasn't only restricted to The Beautiful People video, I noticed tonight that there is a 'Monkey Mask' on the wall of Manson's trailer during the Man That You Fear video also:-

     

     

    I imagine this was an intentional prop, mostly due to the fact that Manson and his ladyfriend are showering together before they leave the trailer for his condemnation, perhaps reflecting the quoted lyric in the sense that it's hard to "be clean" when the Apes live in the dirt around you. The Ape being hung on the wall also makes me think about the effigy of Christ in people's homes, which Manson has commented about on numerous occasions, specifically as an ironic image of sex, murder, and celebration of death, an Ape Of God in all respects.

    P R O V I D E R   M O D U L E   |   F O R U M S

    Comprehensive resource and guide to the art, music, and creative history of Marilyn Manson. Featuring Marilyn Manson News, Biographies, Discographies, Discussion Boards and more.

    MySpace Facebook Twitter YouTube RSS News Feed

  9. ‡ <me>‡
    joined
    09/5/10
    posts
    530
    Golachab
    VI° - Burning Bodies
    Sunday, March 14th, 2010 - 21:13:01
    Originally posted by S.D.
    Originally posted by NK
    "If you live with apes, man, it's hard to be clean..."

    It would appear the domestic Ape wasn't only restricted to The Beautiful People video, I noticed tonight that there is a 'Monkey Mask' on the wall of Manson's trailer during the Man That You Fear video also:-

     

     

    I imagine this was an intentional prop, mostly due to the fact that Manson and his ladyfriend are showering together before they leave the trailer for his condemnation, perhaps reflecting the quoted lyric in the sense that it's hard to "be clean" when the Apes live in the dirt around you. The Ape being hung on the wall also makes me think about the effigy of Christ in people's homes, which Manson has commented about on numerous occasions, specifically as an ironic image of sex, murder, and celebration of death, an Ape Of God in all respects.

     I recall Aaron mentioning this to us not too long ago. I agree, I think it's intentional too.

    MySpace | MANSONWIKI | Youtube
    The Marilyn Manson encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

  10. S.D.
    Occipital Parietal
    joined
    07/3/25
    location
    Below The Belt
    posts
    252
    Samael
    III° - The Desolation of God, The Left Hand
    Sunday, March 14th, 2010 - 21:31:10
    Originally posted by ‡ <me>‡

     I recall Aaron mentioning this to us not too long ago. I agree, I think it's intentional too.

     

    I couldn't remember discussing it back then (apologies for this), but it's definitely a video I think fans have undervalued, especially in relation to themes that would emerge more definitely in the Manson canon later into The Tryptych. I do think the concept of Christ as Ape should be furthered in this topic also.

    P R O V I D E R   M O D U L E   |   F O R U M S

    Comprehensive resource and guide to the art, music, and creative history of Marilyn Manson. Featuring Marilyn Manson News, Biographies, Discographies, Discussion Boards and more.

    MySpace Facebook Twitter YouTube RSS News Feed

  11. [god]speed
    [ART] is a SYMBOL Because [MAN] is a SYMBOL
    joined
    09/5/10
    location
    < [ heART ] >
    posts
    2038
    Thamiel
    X° - Duality in God
    Monday, March 15th, 2010 - 08:06:23

    It was around November on MSN, I recall distinctly that the night before Jen and I watched Bowie's Man that Fell To Earth, as recommend by you, due to your affinity for Bowie. ;) When Jen noticed a scene from the film in which Bowie is looking into the mirror resembled Man that you fear and Running To The Edge, so I went and took a screenshot for her to post on the visual parallels thread, and while I was taking screenshots I noticed the Monkey Mask and it was brought up as the three of us discussed the man that fell to earth, when I showed you this then you compared it to the crucifix that hangs on the wall, and Jen said it reminded her of the Disposable teens video.... 

     

    Anyways, it's meant to be shared  I have more to add :)

     

    THE RABBIT'S JUST A MONKEY IN DISGUISE...

     

    What I find most interesting, is that the monkey mask is hanging right beside the door, as if he has to put it on to blend in with the crowd, or has discarded the mask to set himself apart from the crowd, as an individual. Adam, the animal who will not be himself, The monkey with the misspelled name... The man who wishes to be something more than just another face in the crowd, The idiot who will not be himself 

    "a wanna-be somebody."

     

    To further the parallels that NK and S.D. have already composed in regards to the monkey as a personification of Christ,  Christ was literally an "ape of god," a mere mortal, or "ape" who put into motion "the will of the gods" by his own hands. Which separated him from the crowd and thus place a halo, or rather a  "target" on his head by the ruling empire who, would much rather have a group of people who conformed and accepted the established rule. Christ entered Jerusalem on the back of a donkey, thus crowning himself the messiah, as this act had been prophecised in the Old Testament, but never put forth into motion until Christ made this a self-fulfilled prophecy of sorts, much like Manson states in regards to bringing about the apocalypse as the anti-christ superstar. When Christ entered the Holy Temple and caused the upheaval and turmoil within, by turning over the money changers table he placed the target on his head, marking himself as the martyr and discarded "the mask" of obscurity, Which as result led to his crucifixion. But it was he, and he alone that nailed himself into place. 

     

     

    Christ, who was just as rebellious as Manson was against conformity and established rule,

    Basically came from the same roots as Manson or of Adam Kadmon in the context of the storyline.

    In all actuality Christ was nothing more than a mere human being, who propelled himself to stardom as the Messiah with the intentions of overthrowing the oppression of the roman empire and the church, Jerusalem was Christ's Holy Wood, and much like Adam,  Christ was born as a "nobody" in the Valley of the Shadow of Death, presumably sensitive to the weak and downtrodden as that was the community he had grown up in his entire life. Certainly Adam dreamed of a world that was so white and perfect, and had every intention of bringing that beauty back with him to share with the "nobodies."  Through his intelligence and spirit, Adam becomes a "star"  a true "working class hero." And quickly rises to fame Though when he gets to the top,   much like Lucifer's temptation of Christ atop the hill, of Holy Wood in which Lucifer offered Christ the opportunity to rule the working class, or the "nobodies" who lived in the very same Valley in which Adam had been born and grown up in,  Adam (or Christ)  refuses to do the "crooked little dance" and realizes that he had lost his identity and connection to the very same people who he had hoped to bring with him, and thus sets out to destroy what he had become, the very same thing he grew up wishing to be. 

     

    "I hate what I've become to escape what I hated being"

     


    The Fall Of Adam

    When Adam arrives back to his trailer in the Valley of Death, After his prescription has expired and his fifteen minutes of fame is up,  he hangs his monkey mask on the wall, crucifying what he was and what he had become and prepares himself, for the death parade.  The majority of the film for the Man that You Fear consists of Manson being anointed and "dressed up as a dying god."  The residents of the Valley of Death, now feel that he is no longer one of them, and thus blindly condemn him to his death.  The boy that they loved had now became the monster they fear.  He whites out his name and crawls back into the shadow, as the "ugly light" of the world from atop of space has damaged him beyond repair, and from the cross he screams out:

     

    HERE IS MY REAL HEAD, I WEAR THIS FUCKING MASK

    BECAUSE YOU CANNOT HANDLE THE REAL ME. 

     

     

     

     

     

  12. S.D.
    Occipital Parietal
    joined
    07/3/25
    location
    Below The Belt
    posts
    252
    Samael
    III° - The Desolation of God, The Left Hand
    Tuesday, March 16th, 2010 - 16:28:43

    Excellent, the things you mentioned in your first paragraph sound like the sorts of conclusions we might have drawn when discussing this subject, I am glad it's come to the surface again.

    It's interesting actually, the idea of religious images in the home, because from what I can see, there is a picture of Christ in the Man That You Fear video as well as the Monkey Mask, on the shelving unit next to the wall:-

     

     

    Also, I was looking over the Portrait Of An American Family artwork this afternoon for something else, and thought it was worth a mention here, the boy on the cover holds a toy monkey:-

     

     

    As highlighted there also, the "Fab Four" effigies of The Beatles sit on the living room table, perhaps representing how images of god and pop stars are interchangeable, or as John Lennon commented (and was parodied by Manson), evidence that The Beatles are Bigger Than Jesus? The Beatles' influence and Lennon specifically would later become far more intrinsic on Holy Wood, so even though their presence was felt in some of the earliest Marilyn Manson performances, continuation of the theme is always nice to note.

    In any case, the boy could be seen as another example of how living with apes makes it harder for one to be clean.

    Also, I quite like the fact that if you read "Daddy"'s belt buckle, it says "Nobody Ever Raped A '38", and the hand holding a pistol featured in the 'I AM YOU' spine is in the centre. So even very early on, all in one album cover, you have the monkey, the man, and then the gun.

     

    The last observation, and one that I'm approaching with trepidation, is what I think is a taxidermied monkey in The Nobodies video:-

     

     

    I can't really be certain of this though, it looks like some breeds of Spider Monkey, but I think there are a few varieties of Marsupial this stuffed animal resembles as well, so if anyone recognises this creature and can confirm or deny, that would be tops.

    P R O V I D E R   M O D U L E   |   F O R U M S

    Comprehensive resource and guide to the art, music, and creative history of Marilyn Manson. Featuring Marilyn Manson News, Biographies, Discographies, Discussion Boards and more.

    MySpace Facebook Twitter YouTube RSS News Feed

  1. Babalon »
  2. Marilyn Manson »
  3. Marilyn Manson Analysis »
reply

page 2 of 2 | 1, 2

  1. Marilyn Manson
    1. Marilyn Manson News
    2. Marilyn Manson General Chat
    3. Marilyn Manson Tour
    4. The High End Of Low | Tour Dates
    5. Marilyn Manson Analysis
  2. General / Personal Chat
    1. General Chat
    2. Philosophy & Writings
    3. "Degenerate" Art
    4. "Degenerate" Film / Movies
    5. "Degenerate" Musik
    6. The Occult
    7. Current Events & Politiks
  3. NACHTKABARETT Site News
    1. Nachtkabarett Translations
    2. Site Updates
    3. Questions / Suggestions